Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

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Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by AndréRhineDavis-(DOG)- » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:57 pm

hey guys ^_^
André here

I've noticed that Zora's maps aren't in the coop rotation. I know they are very hard and so might be unsuitable for Jackal's server where skipping is not available, but what about for Xperience coop?

Also, I notice you have 7 bullets, but not its prequel Xidia Gold. Is there a 227 conversion of Xidia Gold out there? It's very much in the same style as 7 bullets, I recommend it!

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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by VooDoo-(DOG)- » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:18 pm

 
Hi André,

AndreRhineDavis wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:57 pm
I've noticed that Zora's maps aren't in the coop rotation. I know they are very hard and so might be unsuitable for Jackal's server where skipping is not available, but what about for Xperience coop?

Yes a significant percentage of Zora's Episodes maps are difficult, sometimes extremely difficult if a player is not already familiar with them. Even acquiring the "code" to open the exit door on ZM4Vulcan is a very time-consuming event, which is definitely not for everyone. It is not just about the difficulty though, it is whether all the maps can actually be won and by that I mean that some maps can potentially be put in an unwinnable state IIRC. It has been many years since I played these maps so I would have to see them again in full to totally appreciate the situation. Voteskip is available on Jackal's by the way, it is only map-voting that it is not present. Either way I do not think they should ever be on Jackal's server, since they might interrupt the continuous flow of the server rotation. Whilst Voteskip might be available there, I envisage seeing many voteskips happening if they were there, so that would be a "no" from me anyway about putting them there. The XPerience server could be a different story though due to it having MapVoting in place there.

With that in mind, I will test them on the test server over the next few days/week, so if you or anyone else wishes to investigate them further please find me in-game or send me a message saying when you would wish to test them with me.

AndreRhineDavis wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:57 pm
Is there a 227 conversion of Xidia Gold out there?

To the best of my knowledge, no. As I have never really got into UT (or been a member at unrealsp.org), I cannot guarantee that that is true. There may be someone in the process of doing it, but I honestly cannot answer you with 100% certainty. There may be technical reasons why a 227 port of Xidia Gold is not possible, but that question would be better addressed at the Oldunreal forum. Someone else here may also be able to shine more light on that question.

Perhaps post your question about that in this thread :-


UT map packs for Unreal


WOOF!

PS. If you ever need the correct code sequence to open the final door (provided by the symbols on the 4 machines) on the map ZM2Citadel, I made a JPG of it! Finally after about 10 years, this tiny JPG I kept might come in useful :Drogar-Happy:
 
 
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by VooDoo-(DOG)- » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:27 am

 
AndréRhineDavis-(DOG)- wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:57 pm
I've noticed that Zora's maps aren't in the coop rotation. I know they are very hard and so might be unsuitable for Jackal's server where skipping is not available, but what about for Xperience coop?

I have mailed Zora recently to expressly ask for permission to make minor edits to the Episodes maps. These maps could be put on a Newbies server (Xperience server) with some tweaking, such as certain movers not killing or at the very least doing less damage. For example getting halfway through the map ZM4Vulcan just to be killed by a very tiny door can be a little frustrating in COOP play. There are other minor adjustments that would help some of these maps for COOP play but having run through all these maps recently (offline and online), it's generally certain movers, apart from the map ZM1Musica.

Here's hoping!

But, if the answer is "no" then the maps can still be played on the Test server, with the exception of ZM1Musica, which because of its end teleporters' URLs is a security risk for a server.

WOOF!
 
 
 
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by VooDoo-(DOG)- » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:01 pm

 
Well I got a very quick reply from Zora which was this :-
 


Hello Vodoo-(DOG)-,

as stated in the readme files of my map packs (sub folder Zora/Z?.txt), you make use my maps as base for your own work. I asked all people with such a request to change the name of the resulting files to avoid version mismatch problems.

Therefore I welcome your idea to append a consistent suffix to all changed files. But please be aware, that if you have to change not only the maps but also scripts/textures/sounds, etc. please change the name of the classes and their files correspondingly to avoid any kind of version mismatch.

There's too many packs out there causing version mismatches for many players. The least thing I want by you editing my maps, is that players get a version mismatch when joining my servers. So just add a suffix, do the changes you need and go ahead keeping the community up and running!

Have fun and keep on playing!

Zora




This is really great news and I have thanked Zora for this permission and explained that only very basic things will be edited, such as doors giving less or zero damage when encroached. Of course any edited maps will be appended with a suffix as per Zora's request and as this is Newbies policy anyway, this is all good news!

The map ZM3SIGNAL has already been done and tested and is obviously now ZM3SIGNAL_NPF. The mirrors don't damage the player now and I have increased the collision radius of the triggers on the moons/globes from 24 to 32 to make it just slightly easier to trigger them for COOP play.

It has been great fun playing these maps with various people lately, so thank you to them and most of all thanks to Zora!
 
WOOF!
 
 
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by Missionary2001 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:25 pm

When i try play Unreal without UPAK in ZM4 Ancient World i got a message: Connetion failed Downloading "zsButtens" Not allowed.
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by VooDoo-(DOG)- » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:29 pm

 
Ok thanks Missionary, I will find you in-game shortly.
 
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by VooDoo-(DOG)- » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:15 am

 
Missionary2001 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:25 pm
When i try play Unreal without UPAK in ZM4 Ancient World i got a message: Connetion failed Downloading "zsButtens" Not allowed.

Hi, putting the original file zs4Buttons.uax in the player's Sounds folder works fine. Kragorth had the same thing and I sent this file to him also. As I understand it, so did Andre, but I think Andre installed all real files eventually and all was good. The same may occur with zxFire.umx so the best recommendation for a player who wants to join all maps is to


visit Zora's World Downloads page


It's an Ancient World!

ZM4AncientWorld_screenshot.jpg

Every time these maps have been played; between us, we've discovered a little bit more - great fun. :)

WOOF!
 
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by Missionary2001 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:07 pm

I did that yesderday. I forgot i had all zora maps/files front of my eyes all the time. I even put zClasses you name it :D
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by £éè£å-(DOG)- » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:59 am

Hi there :)

back in 2008 when I came to Newbies Zora's maps were in the rotation of Jackal's coop.
I really loved this map pack, although it is the hardest mapset I've ever played. But without an admin being present it can be a real pain.

F.e. ZM3Signal, in this map it was very difficult to leave the starting area. Many players simply didn't know what to do there. For example, they attacked the Skaarj right when he showed up, without knowing, that the Skaarj is needed to shoot the first globe, or they played aimless around with the mirrors.
Also the mirrors are real killers. I can't tell how often I got killed by them. There is also an error with the third mirror. This one is not aligned correctly and its shot does not hit the globe. Luckily it can also be done with the second mirror, otherwise the map would hang here.

As VooDoo already mentioned, the end in ZM4Vulcan is insane. If I remember correctly, in the lighthouse there are 8 switches to do in a certain order to open the exit door. The problem is, when you make one mistake in the order you have to start again with the first switch.
And if that is still not enough, on each mapstart the order is different. :cheesygrin:
When we played this map back then we marked the switches with flags, for each number one flag, go figure. :Drogar-Laugh:

I would agree here with VooDoo, the mapset should not be on Jackal's coop, even if it is a very nicely and well done work, but as said, they are not easy to play and even experienced players can have a hard time in them.


@VooDoo

For the problem with some files, which are seemingly not allowed for download, you should check them with a hexeditor. Check the setting of byte 8 in the files (f.e. zs4Buttons.uax), probably it is set to 00, like it is in the original Vortex2.unr map. If this is the case, you should set it to 01, which allows the download of the file. You can do that without the risk of a file mismatch after that.

Here an example with Vortex2.unr, when you open it with a hexeditor you'll find this:

Code: Select all

C1 83 2A 9E 3D 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 85 22 00 00
Byte 8 indicates, that this file ist not allowed for download. When you change it to 01 download will be possible:

Code: Select all

C1 83 2A 9E 3D 00 00 00
01 00 00 00 85 22 00 00

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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by strategy-(DOG)- » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:15 am

thank you for clarifying this, Leela! :)

when we tweaked and setup the AdvancedCoop-Server in past (especially related to the spawning monsters we took from various mods, e.g. dots' packs), do you remember by chance that skaarj-class that often caused crashes on the server? unfortunately i forgot this ;)
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by £éè£å-(DOG)- » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:27 pm

Yup, that nasty little dwarf named LungeHunter, it is from Pack6. You can find one in Csejte16. :mrgreen:
It's basically a SkaarjBerserker. We had a similar crash problem in one of the Sinistral maps (the one before you enter the big spaceship). At the end of that map there is a boss Skaarj and it was a SkaarjBerserker. I exchanged that one with a SkaarjLord to solve the crash problem.

I'm not sure why those crashes occur, but it seems, that the SkaarjBerserker wasn't made for interaction with crowds of other monsters.

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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by strategy-(DOG)- » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:54 pm

thank you very much! :D
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by Nikola-(DOG)- » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:35 pm

HOLY VANDORA!
Ah yes these series from Zora are pretty nice, but as Leela said they can give even experienced player some brain pain.
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by Missionary2001 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:44 pm

ZM4Vulcan is the hardest part in the lighthouse. I have no memory of figure out, maybe i have. not sure. :D
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Re: Recommendation for new maps to add to coop rotation

Post by VooDoo-(DOG)- » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:38 am

 
Hi Leela! WooF!

Welcome back and great to see you. :D

£éè£å-(DOG)- wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:59 am
F.e. ZM3Signal, in this map it was very difficult to leave the starting area. Many players simply didn't know what to do there. For example, they attacked the Skaarj right when he showed up, without knowing, that the Skaarj is needed to shoot the first globe, or they played aimless around with the mirrors.

Indeed and this can cause unnecessary player frustration when 2 players know what to do and more join who don't. For example telling players not to touch the mirros or not to shoot that skaarj often just doesn't work well, because let's be honest, most players don't like being told not to do something and I can't blame them for that, or they just leave in frustration, which is why these maps have had some heavy testing over the past months, before being added to the XPerience server. It is a sense of great achievement though when the mirrors are aligned properly and the staircase rises (then descends) to the next part of the map; almost a "Eureka" moment. :)

£éè£å-(DOG)- wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:59 am
Also the mirrors are real killers. I can't tell how often I got killed by them.

I have already created a ZM3Signal_NPF for this very reason, now the mirrors give zero damage, which at least gives people a much better chance of proceeding.

£éè£å-(DOG)- wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:59 am
There is also an error with the third mirror. This one is not aligned correctly and its shot does not hit the globe. Luckily it can also be done with the second mirror, otherwise the map would hang here.

Indeed! In fact only 3 mirrors are needed to complete this area.

£éè£å-(DOG)- wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:59 am
...... the end in ZM4Vulcan is insane. If I remember correctly, in the lighthouse there are 8 switches to do in a certain order to open the exit door. The problem is, when you make one mistake in the order you have to start again with the first switch.

Yes, this puzzle is actually fairly easy, but as you say, it is very time-consuming, especially if another player randomly/purposefully presses another switch! When that happens it can be a real GGRRR!

£éè£å-(DOG)- wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:59 am
And if that is still not enough, on each mapstart the order is different. :cheesygrin:
When we played this map back then we marked the switches with flags, for each number one flag, go figure.

Hehe, well we have been using seeds for that, planting 1 seed at the top of the steps near the "1st" switch and planting another halfway round to indicate the "5th" switch. The 8-digit code actually always starts with a 7 or an 8, so that's at least a good start. :)

£éè£å-(DOG)- wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:59 am
For the problem with some files, which are seemingly not allowed for download, you should check them with a hexeditor.

I had already done that (thanks strategy-(DOG)- for the German Hex-editor, I learned some new German with this!) but I thought that a new unique identifier (GUID) would be created if I altered it and would potentially cause conflicts for people who downloaded it from Newbies then went to join the same maps on Zora's server, so I proceeded with caution, because as Zora mentioned in her email :-

"The least thing I want by you editing my maps, is that players get a version mismatch when joining my servers."


But as you say if.....

£éè£å-(DOG)- wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:59 am
You can do that without the risk of a file mismatch after that.

.... then great news! Thanks for that clarification, I feel much happier to proceed now and add them!


There is one map that still concerns me Leela (for COOP play anyway) and that map is ZM4AncientWorld. I have tested this map a lot with Missionary who can confirm this problem. It seems that when the end of this map is hit, it crashes the game for everyone who didn't hit the end teleporter. Any help with this would be most appreciated, because it is basically now the only reason why these maps have not been already added. This problem has me scratching my head. :P
Another slight issue with this map (for COOP anyway) is that the players purposefully start this map with no guns because it is Nali settlement with no bad guys, but of course with the spawner running and no guns, this can make it very interesting indeed. :cheesygrin:

Best wishes to you and hopefully might see you on the Christmas server soon where one of your favourite songs is embedded in one of the "Christmas" maps! Wow, that seems so long ago now when you helped out with the zoneterminalvelocity issue on that map. :)

How time flies!

WooF!
 
 
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